I'm feeling a bit tender today. Within minutes of the posting of Andrew Brown's exposure of the nasty side of Rowan Williams, Americans on facebook started with their isolationist rants again. I pointed out on one of the threads that some of us in England have sacrificed pretty much everything by our unflinching support of our American brothers and sisters against the hierarchy of our own church. The response was "You haven't suffered like we've suffered you whinging pom."

Here is my photoshopic representation of what I think about the United States this afternoon. But it will pass.


FRIENDS IN NEED — 30 Comments

  1. Isolationist rants? I think mostly we are hurt by some of our Anglican brothers and sisters who don’t want us around. That does sometimes lead people to say things like, “You can’t fire me, I quit!” But that is a rare sentiment. Mostly we just want to be part of the WWAC, realizing that our flaws and shortcomings are not the only ones out there. And, we are very grateful for the unflinching support of our friends.

  2. Wow! Who kicked your headstone? The archbishop is a world wide problem and we all know it. Unfortunately, we cannot get rid of the jerk, only England can.

    If it comes to a full split and former CoE Anglicans are looking for a home, including some of their clergy, I am sure we will welcome the refugees. But we are not quite there yet. The government and the sane bishops (we hear there are some) could still get rid of these twerps.

    I keep hoping.


  3. It may well come to a split. But to make noises about throwing in the towel in now is just going to make our enemies stronger. If I get cross when Americans start talking this way then my chauvinistic compatriots will be milking the perceived isolationism for all its worth. That’s for certain.

  4. MadPriest, tell us isolationist Americans what we should do. I mean specific ideas, a list of actions to take so as not to be selfish and isolationist. Vague moans about how we’re abandoning you are not helpful.

  5. All I am saying is shut up about leaving. It is most definitely not helpful at this time. We have achieved much by hanging together for the last five years or so. So we STFU and carry on as normal. For goodness sake, this leak is the best thing that has happened for ages. Let’s not throw away its value by using it as an excuse for nationalistic, knee jerk, self pity.

  6. Pardon me, Jonathan, but I’m not seeing self pity on our end. I don’t feel sorry for myself and have seen little to no self-pity from my fellow TECies.

    What do you mean by leaving? Do you mean that TEC should sign on to the daft covenant? I can’t go along with that. I couldn’t before we learned about Rowan’s tantrums.

    I agree that the revelation of what Rowan is really like is a good thing.

  7. Even so… we might not choose isolation –we may be forced in to isolation because some of our Bishops stood with integrity and we as a church might yet strive to act with integrity… unlike some coy Bishops in the CofE as your post below reveals.

    Yeah –you are right –we may leave, and talking about it isn’t helpful –but, it is truthful, and let’s get the assumption right on who is twisting whose arm. And sometimes, enough is enough.

    As my mother always said, “Balls,” said the queen. “If I had two, I’d be king.”

  8. If we are talking about truth then we should admit that TEC is also arm-twisting. But I’m not in the slightest bit interested in who is twisting whose arm. All I am interested in is winning. And part of my strategy for winning is making sure that I keep as many people I can, from wherever they are, on side and united. If the English told Hitler how we were actually feeling during WWII in stead of keeping up our bravado we would have lost before the US even thought about helping us out.

  9. MadPriest, where is the self-pity in TEC? I’m not getting that at all. Some in TEC want to have done with Rowan and the Anglican Communion. I want to try to hang together for the sake of the relationships. We differ, but I don’t see us engaging in “poor me”.

    I’m sure many in the CoE want Rowan out of the way, too, but that doesn’t equate to self-pity.

  10. I was indulging in self-pity on a thread below, the original post about Rowan’s and John’s bullying.

    Later in the same post, I realized that our own House of Bishops just may have been victims of Rowan’s bullying.

    I believe in God.
    I believe in the people of God – CofE, TEC, whatever.
    I do not believe in archbishops, or even bishops, priests and deacons for that matter.

  11. Lois, if I’m reading the correct comment, what you said doesn’t sound like self-pity to me, but if you say so….

    MadPriest, I stand corrected.

  12. We’ll only leave if Rowan has the doorman throw us out.

    Over here, I’m not seeing any steady drumbeat to cut the ropes and leave our C of E friends to drift.

  13. Divide and conquer.

    It always works.

    There seems to be a faction out there who would seek to divide people over a silly “rooftree issue” like “no poofters” and to give in to them is just plain sad.

    Don’t let them win.

  14. Things I think I know:

    TEC is not even considering any action to “leave” the WWAC.

    General Convention (which would have to make such a move) is not and I am certain, won’t consider it this Summer.

    Our Presiding Bishop (think Rowan without a beard) is quite willing to sacrifice our lesbian / gay clergy for “unity.” Look up “crucified place” and her name on Google if you doubt me.

    The “covenant” will not be “acceded to” or accepted in Indianapolis. That means we will be a church “considering approval” as the onerous section 4 has it for the next 3 years. That should mean we are first level members for that period.

    Talk of “leaving” is premature. Calling for Dr. Williams’ resignation or whatever the CoE calls an impeachment are overdue. But we have the presiding bishop we have. She is much more likely to sacrifice mere clergy and laity than she is to offend an archidiotbishop.


  15. Chere Grandmere, I was feeling self-pitying about my the loss of hope in this man. I realize the words I wrote may not reveal that.

    I haven’t read whatever people posted on your facebook page, MP, so I don’t know the context of this post. I can only speak for myself. Personally, I want us in TEC to do whatever we have to not to “leave”, but, rather, remain so those who don’t want us will have to try to force us out. I also want us to make some gesture that makes it clear we remain for the sake of those who have lost so much by remaining in an abusive church, as well as for the sake of those who have done, and are doing, the abusing.

    So, that’s where I stand, with hope only in Jesus Christ and not a fuzzy-faced man who I gave me the gift of poetry when I had been told by my professors that I failed to understand, a man I thought was wonderful, and who proves, so far as I can tell, feet of clay.

    wv: consh – I feel I’ve been conshed up side the head.

  16. That’s just plain silly, MadPriet. Was I going to leave husband, family, and friends because of Bush?

    And I never said anything about leaving the Anglican Communion, either, did I?

  17. I was just arguing with your self pitying co-dependence diagnosis. Just because you don’t like the bloke in charge of something doesn’t mean you can’t “care” for it.

  18. There are a few evil people of my acquaintance who think TEC should sign the ruddy covenant and rain on “their” parade. If TEC signed on, very likely none of the Africans we know and love so well would do so. Southeast Asia as much as said they would withdraw from the covenant if we signed up. Of course, there is the moral issue of signing a covenant we likely will not follow, as I do not see a chance of our church backtracking on the gay clergy issue. In fact, social progress is moving in the direction of inclusion. Not fast enough for some, but it is moving, and that would make it even more difficult to regress on gay rights, or even leaving people “in a crucified place”. King Canute knew the score.

  19. Hey, thanks to us “isolationist” Americans, you’re not singing Deutschland Uber Alles, are you?

    You’re welcome.

    wv: mention

    As in, “Don’t mention it.”


    Yeah, right. Isolationist.

    When every fecking nation on the planet is constantly begging us for money or military help and we’re giving it to them….

    Yeah, right.


    In your dreams.

  20. You don’t think maybe your complaints exacerbate the situation? You really don’t understand Americans any better than we understand you.

  21. Tracie, the rich nations only give if it is of benefit to them and there are always stringent conditions attached that make their companies even more money. Perhaps if we stopped the military aid there wouldn’t be so much need for us to get involved in so many wars. But then that would cripple our armament industries.

  22. When I hear the word “isolationist” I think of Tibet. They were “isolationist” and look at where it got them.

    We are not “isolationist.”

    Independent, yes. Fiercely so. We even have a national holiday around it, coming up soon.

    But that’s not “isolationist.”

  23. Rowan is not merely a bully, he is also sneaky. Under the duplicitous section 4, no one will be expelled from the communion. Rather if someone does something unacceptable, you know like treating women decently or considering lbgt humans to be celebrated, that sort of thing, then the dreaded “relational consequences” will appear.

    “Relational consequences” means your scholars are not invited to be on commissions or panels and your bishops are not accepted as members of the first class flyers club. But(!) checks are still cashed, and province is still counted when Dr. Williams is attempting to impress people with the communion’s size.