The history of Judaism is the history of one, massive argument between Humankind and God. There was fault on both sides and I think God accepted that when God became flesh and died for our sins.



  1. Ooooo…most intriguing. I agree God has a lot to answer for. And yes, I think I would agree, the incarnation and death would be an answer. For a long time I’ve pictured that scene in Daniel, where the Ancient of Days sits on the throne and the book is opened and one like a Son of Man comes before him.
    And the part I imagine is, that the Son of Man stands eternally before the Ancient of Days, in judgment against God’s faults, holding out his wounded hands as a reminder.
    Well, it’s just a vision I had once…

  2. Last Sunday, I was the lector at my church, and read the story from Exodus about the Golden Calf and how Moses basically talked God out of destroying the Israelites. I think you’re absolutely right here.

  3. Totally off-topic and in no way connected with this post I know BUT I’m trying to reach you with a message. N is concerned you may not have seen the message he emailed you last night. Apologies he is unable to make tonight.

  4. At Auschwitz, I have been told, a Rabbinic court, convicted G-d on charges because G-d permitted the chosen people to be mistreated as they were being. I think they had a point.


  5. Wasn’t that a play, “The Trial of God”? [The defendant’s counsel helps YHWH beat the rap. Then it’s revealed said attorney is Satan. };-/]

  6. I’ve had the argument before with friends and loved ones.

    Mark: “God behaved viciously in the Old Testament because He had no way of knowing what it was to be human. He had to become human to understand.”

    Loved-One: “Don’t be stupid! How could God not understand being human? He’s God! He could find a way to understand!”

    M: “Agreed. It’s called Incarnation, and that’s my point.”

    L-O: “But for thousands of years He just ‘didn’t get it?’ For that long?”

    M: “How long? Your long? My long? Or God’s overnight?”

    L-O: “Thousands of years is too long to anybody!”

    M: “Who was it who said, ‘He’s God!’?”

    L-O: “Don’t be stupid! . . . “

    IN THE BEGINNING was the Word Verification, and the word verification was “untated;” and the lunches of the land were without tots. . .

  7. The Calvinists and fundamentalists seem to always want to reserve for God the special privilege that the rules don’t apply to him. Not surprisingly, having established that someone who is more powerful can do as they please, you get the bullying and emotional violence that is found in their marriages, their family relationships and the way they treat each other. Sorry, getting off the point.

    The point is that God will be up for judgement on the last day as much as any of us. How could it be otherwise? And God knows this more than any of us because it is only out of our human frailty that we think that the rules might not apply to him and that we have to reserve some special prerogative for him.

    Jesus, being God, doesn’t die for our sins he dies for his own sins. If he died for our sins how could that be right or fair? Jesus may well have been sinless as a human being but as God he suffers for his (God’s) own sins, just as we do. Actually sin mightn’t have anything to do with it. It is simply an imperfect, chaotic, painful world. And God is as responsible for this as we are. If we leave sin out of it, it might be best to say that he (God) participates in our suffering just as we do. Jesus said “Father, why have you forsaken me?” God forsakes us all, at times, and Jesus (God) participates in this same experience, his very own forsaking of himself. But God promises never to forsake us permanently and never to forsake us beyond a point where we can cope.


  8. MP, are you speaking literally like so many of our out of control Bible worshiping Christians? Or are you speaking mythologically which is primarily what the Old Testament writings are all about – story telling with a purpose – but human story telling trying to wrap their minds around YHWY.

  9. Well, otherwise sensible liberal folk seem to get caught up in this literal reading of what God “was like” in the Old Testament because the stories present YHWH as this rather cranky dude…