Saying that gay people can become bishops as long as they don't ever have sex is no more generous or enlightened than saying mass murderers and serial killers can become bishops as long as they promise not to kill anybody. Basically the Grand Tufti is saying that there is no difference between gay people and murderers. Well, I suppose it makes a change from being called a paedophile.



  1. I think you are wrong – it is you who is saying “that there is no difference between gay people and murderers”, as you have made the analogy.

    Unfortunately, the Bible is quite clear on men having sex with men:

    Leviticus 20:13
    ‘If a man has sex with a man in same way as with a woman, they have committed an abomination. They are certainly to be put to death.’

    This is one of the many reasons I’m not a big fan of the Bible.

  2. An atheist being no big fan of the Bible is of no more account than a vegetarian being no big fan of liver and bacon. What is worrying though is your childish view of the Bible. It’s not the word of God you know.

  3. To quote Colleen Kochivar-Baker at Enlightened Catholicism “The scriptural and traditional approach didn’t give much ground for being positive about outlawing the slave trade…”. So according to his own statement, given that the US defeated England in two wars, +Katherine should be allowed to take ++Rowan as her man-slave (through her husband, of course).

    What is most amazing is that ++Rowan, as a scholar himself, could expect his statement to be taken seriously. As my dear departed dad would say, “It boogers the mind!” (malaprop intentional).

  4. I don’t see how a man could have sex with a man “as with a woman”. Isn’t that the point?

    Besides, what about lesbians?

  5. Then what is it?
    Is there a Secret Version we don’t know about?
    How do we know what you say the Bible says?
    If we already “feel” what is right, why bother with church, the Bible, clergy, hymns…..?

  6. If a man has sex with a man in [the] same way as with a woman

    No worry here. I have never had sex with a woman so I am off the hook and I can do anything that I wish with another man.

  7. Well, I suppose the Grand Tufti has had conversations with officials in Florida. Until last week’s court ruling on adoption, the state could consider placing a child with an adoptive parent who had murder record, but not a gay person.

  8. I had a thought, MP.

    If we could con the Scottish Church in to goin crazy-left like those African prelates are goin stupid-right, mayhap we could get gay bishops AND choir boys in kilts. T’would help fill the front pews, you know.

    Just trying to be helpful. 🙂

  9. If you don’t know how to tell what’s right and what’s wrong, Anonymous, without a little guidebook, then you really aren’t the sort of person anyone should take guidance from. You should just be quiet and let those of us who are better and more evolved make the calls while you wait to be placed in humanity’s recycle bin.

  10. Then what is it?

    It’s a book written by human beings. Therefore, to claim it is the word of God is idolatry. Personally, I approach it in the same way I would the writings of the Venerable Bede. Some of Bede’s history is factually correct (although the facts, as in all history books, are distorted by Bede’s own prejudices) and some are pure fabrication. But even the fabrications are valuable as they give us an insight into the mindset of the people of Bede’s time. What is factual and what is not is open to debate. The same is true of the Bible.

    Why bother with the church etc.? Because we want to. Because people are pack animals. Because it’s a way of communicating with each other and our descendants. Because it is place for the debate about the Bible. Unfortunately the Church has become a place where powerful men tell others what to do and get away with doing so because they have persuaded the gullible that the Bible is the word of God.

  11. I don’t know if they have choirboys in kilts yet, Tim. But I do know for a fact that there are many openly gay priests living with partners in SEC and that they occupy positions in the church in every post below the post of bishop.

  12. With comments like this, RW sounds like a silly old gossip queen speculating about what the gay boys are doing in bed.

    One must wonder why he’s not salaciously drooling about straight boys having sex outside marriage or engaging in adultery.

  13. MP, you illustrate the truth that the brain and ass are intimately connected. You are so right on the Bible being a series of ‘books’ written by men. And that’s it. Then you revert to ass status with your absurd analogy in your post. Bill

  14. As long as we’re throwing the Bible around, the verse Rowan inspires in me is Matthew 23:4 – “They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on the shoulders of others; but they themselves are unwilling to lift a finger to move them.”

    Rowan insists on imposing celibacy on others but is unable to impose celibacy on himself. Celibacy is also not easily assumed. The Roman Catholic Church has a culture of at least attempting to support and assist celibates. And there’s still a lot of failure. (I realize that celibacy and abstinence are two different things but in the context of the RCC, I think they’re related.)

    Anglicanism has no real culture of support and assistance for celibacy, the presence of the Anglo-Catholic wing notwithstanding. I’ve certainly never heard anything of any real substance from Rowan that I would call helpful on how one should live a celibate life.

    Someone who imposes a burden on another that one cannot bear oneself and who, in addition offers no support to the person on who one has imposed the burden (except for the occasional pious platitude) – it’s all quite repulsive, isnt’ it?

  15. What’s wrong with ass? Ass features prominently in both the old and new testament.