DISCUSSION STARTER

You know, I’m not convinced that God created the universe. I’m attracted far more to the concept of God bringing order out of chaos.

For a start it fits well with other major Christian beliefs. The Christ event appears to me to be about God trying to tidy up the mess. I mean if God is creative in a completely omnipotent way why didn’t God do something more interventionist, concrete and less risky. And the orthodox belief in a coming new heaven and earth, which is already in production, which is gradual as well as cataclysmic, is a bringing order thing rather than a single act of creation.

Secondly it ties in with our present scientific understanding of the universe. In fact, it is a perfect fit, whilst creationist ideas are not. But I’m not altering the concept of God to fit modern knowledge. The argument as to wether God created the universe from nothing or created it out of a preexisting chaos is very ancient.

Comments

DISCUSSION STARTER — 11 Comments

  1. Of course, one should take into account that creation is going on right now, pretty much at the same clip it has maintained for the past few billion years. It’s certainly messy in spots, and can be incredibly destructive along the way, but stars are being born and destroyed, life forms are rising and disappearing, all in a rhythm of incredible power, governed by processes we are only now dimly beginning to understand.

  2. I like it too, Ann. Especially this:

    “I say we are meant to ponder the meaning of this. We are meant to wonder why; and perhaps never reach a conclusion.”

  3. Having several religious influences, I have a complex view.

    I like the (simplified) Kabbalistic view that there was nothing but God and God began to withdraw His/Her/Itself away from a section to create a space to make what we call Creation, the Multiverse, whatever. In the Creation, there were several attempts to construct vessels to hold the God-energy, at least one of which failed, leaving shattered universes of unbalanced energy, called Klippoth, from which demons came. In short, demons aren’t a different race, just us unbalanced in our energy/focus, and why I don’t know that humanity will make it. We seem to be a profoundly unbalanced world, and who knows how long it took the Klippoth to break.

    There’s also the Shinto idea of “The Void” as being personified in an “evil” deity called The Mikaboshi. The Mikaboshi is formless potential, out of which comes all things, and the Mikaboshi constantly looks to degrade, devolve and destroy Humanity to return what is to a state of potentiality, thus to its control – thus, Void is more ordered and tidy than Creation, from Mikaboshi’s viewpoint.

    I think the best take on Creation, though, was Douglas Adams’:

    “In the Beginning, God created the Heaven and the Earth. This upset a lot of people, and has generally been regarded as a bad move.”

  4. I like the process theology – God was at the beginning but God dwells in the future – calling us into fullness of creation – companioning us along the way

  5. Creationism requires an amazingly low level of scholarship and understanding. I think Ann’s son makes some considerable sense.

    The scholars who included the creation stories in Genesis knew the had no information about how G-D created but substantial confidence that G-D did and does.

    FWIW
    jimB

  6. I am going to assume you’re coming at this idea from a strictly Christian perspective. Given that this is the case, let me ask you: who created the chaos? Where did it come from? It had to come from or be created by someone or something, and that means that the someone or something that created the chaos was there before God was there. So where did God come from?

    Perhaps the “ex nihilo” idea fits into Christian thinking better than the “order from chaos” idea.

    What say you?

  7. Is there a “strictly Christian perspective?”
    If there is I expect I’m out of sync with a lot of it.

    I don’t know the answer, of course. But here are some thoughts on the subject (purely speculative).

    The chaos will be in time whilst God is not in time. Therefore the problem of chaos existing before God is a non-starter.

    My guess is that the chaos came out of the Big Bang and the sorting out of the chaos happened during the period of rapid expansion when the laws of nature were sorted out.